samiux

原帖由 Gundamdriver 於 2009-1-4 01:48 發表
That patent has been rejected.

http://www.neowin.net/news/main/ ... get-the-green-light

Thanks for your information.

Take time to have a look :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x35AIGJaM5M&eurl=http://samiux.wordpress.com/lambda/&feature=player_embedded

[ 本帖最後由 samiux 於 2009-1-4 02:29 編輯 ]

samiux

原帖由 Gundamdriver 於 2009-1-4 01:59 發表

Maybe you are right if and only if you are talking about developing native Mac OS X applications.

I have been angry with Apple for years on application development, why? I am still using Tiger, and  ...

I do know that Linux is developed by programmers and developed for programmers.

foobar

原帖由 Gundamdriver 於 2009-1-4 01:59 發表

Maybe you are right if and only if you are talking about developing native Mac OS X applications.

I have been angry with Apple for years on application development, why? I am still using Tiger, and  ...

I can understand the Java platform being unavailable on Mac is what makes you most upset.  But I think Sun has to blamed for this as well. The wonderful Windows port of Java come from Sun and not Microsoft.  Sun created it because they have no choice but do it themselves or risk losing the WHOLE client side Java app market (Microsoft was eager to do that themselves and you saw their Embrace and Extend tricks).  Actually as now Sun has dual licensed their JDK thing, people did port the openjdk to OS X, just with X11 and no cocoa/carbon support.  Why not Sun do the dirty work for OS X as they did Windows?  And more ridiculous was that Sun said something like "We'll put Java on iPhone"?!  I think you could suggest Sun to spend sometime to maintain and release a Cocoa port for OS X as they did with Windows.  I don't think your Mac is as locked down as the iPhone to prevent you installing the Sun release of Java

For the gcc bloat, I wonder why you didn't compare Xcode with Visual Studio on Windows.  At least doing a "port search gcc" shows that a whole slew of version is available via the Macports, so I guess there must be at least some precompiled binaries available without the Xcode thing.  You would still need to extract the headers from the Xcode package using something like Pacifist though.

After all, I think the software availability thing is more a problem of the software vendor selecting the platform to reach their audience instead of the problem of the platform itself.  I feel sorry but your response make me feel no different than someone saying he is getting angry because Microsoft Office is not available for Linux and can only stuck with Open Office, thus dismissing Linux as a whole.

[ 本帖最後由 foobar 於 2009-1-4 04:18 編輯 ]

samiux

原帖由 valleybok 於 2008-12-25 02:33 發表
今天是平安夜,但最近我腦袋中就有一個念頭在想在想,我想不通~今晚就將我的奇想說出來吧!
最近我常有一個問題,Linux桌面真的比Windows差嗎?如果用技術來說,肯定不是.但為何遲遲未能令用戶垂青?
之前我還有點難理解.最 ...

To maintain a project (any kind of Linux project) needs a lot of investment (such as time and money).  If it is a Linux distribution project, it requires a hugh investment for updating, upgrading and security patching.  Manpower also needs to manage and organize.  The leader should be a Linux expert in some areas, such as programming, security and etc.  Leadership is also required for the project leader.

I think this kind of project is not very easy to start if the project leader has no such kind of advantages.  Just my opinion.

Gundamdriver

If Apple managed to maintain its own Java port, it is their responsibility to make sure the software is patched. From I knew, Apple doesn't allow JRE (or other similar software act as a layer for communication between applications and system) becoz $teve doesn't like Java. Ok, perhaps iPhone doesn't have enough power to run Java, but what about the computers? Why can't Apple release its own JDK for all versions of OS X?

You have mentioned X11 and MacPorts. Well, I hate them, to be more precise, I hate to install them on Mac. Why? If X11 is required, why don't I simply work on Linux? I can install X11 on my Linux box, and if I want to, I can even download experimental builds and try them. I can also have APT, which inspired MacPorts and Fink, on Debian or Debian-base Linux distro., why should I have the same system on Mac?

I haven't tried t write "Hello World" in ANSI C with Visual Studio, I would like someone to tell me if VS is similar to Xcode that those standard C header files are missing. But even if VS failed to work, I can still have Dev-C++, and I am 100% sure I can write ANSI C programs on (and compile) it. What about Mac? I would be pleased if someone could tell me building an environment on Mac to write C/ C++ without using the bloated Xcode.

Up to this moment, I see no advantages of using Mac for application development. Apple is just trying to put sugar coat on its aluminum cages and lock you in it.

foobar

原帖由 Gundamdriver 於 2009-1-4 14:50 發表
If Apple managed to maintain its own Java port, it is their responsibility to make sure the software is patched. From I knew, Apple doesn't allow JRE (or other similar software act as a layer for comm ...

I didn't think Microsoft welcomed the Sun Java port at the beginning as well, otherwise why the lawsuit between Sun and MS regarding Java on Windows?  And if sun provided a dmg for OS X Java you would simply ditch the Apple port, and maybe Sun should just seek injunction for Apple's own Java port as they did with MS

The X11 I mentioned is for the port of OpenJDK, I guess there is a pretty high chance X11 is not required if you don't need the GUI features of Java.

I am not a developer, but for the GCC without Xcode, a simple google search shows that people do hate the Xcode thing as you do, but they do have a solution! Just "rm -rf /Developer" after installing Xcode and you are done All the headers and the required binaries are inside the system folder.  And Apple does heard its sin and make it a selectable option allowing you to install the Compiler Tools only for later Xcode package.

I don't object the point about the lock-in, everybody in the commercial world loves lock-in.  I welcome your opinion about it but it seems to me some of the problem is not as one-sided as it seems

Gundamdriver

I am not a developer, but for the GCC without Xcode, a simple google search shows that people do hate the Xcode thing as you do, but they do have a solution! Just "rm -rf /Developer" after installing Xcode and you are done  All the headers and the required binaries are inside the system folder.  And Apple does heard its sin and make it a selectable option allowing you to install the Compiler Tools only for later Xcode package.

Great, Leopard ONLY again?

foobar

原帖由 Gundamdriver 於 2009-1-4 15:55 發表

Great, Leopard ONLY again?

Maybe, I really have no knowledge about these things, but I guess the header files are version dependent But at least they fix it, and you are free to remove the /Developer folder for Tiger or earlier releases as suggested by others.

[ 本帖最後由 foobar 於 2009-1-4 16:17 編輯 ]

Gundamdriver

Haha.

Linux rulz!

[ 本帖最後由 Gundamdriver 於 2009-1-4 16:34 編輯 ]

foobar

原帖由 Gundamdriver 於 2009-1-4 16:34 發表
Haha.

Linux rulz!

Linux of course rules, I guess that's the common view here I have no problem believing Linux is the BEST for low-cost server solution, and gaining ground on the mobile (I am using a Moto E6, but eager to see those Andriod phones ) and desktop end.  I actually found the GNOME desktop quite fine for daily uses so what I now wish is that more big software vendors joining the bandwagon on releasing commercial app on the Linux platform too