ltsp

原帖由 licgfg 於 2008-12-26 17:46 發表

如果真係linux only,咁可能會dual os既
不過玩厭左既話都係會荒廢
正如之前我裝osx86,搞左好鬼多野
但玩2玩都係會番去vista
始終太多用開既野係windows果度
其他os代替唔到

以前我都玩過OSX86，又係搞左好多野，但當時主要都係要boot返入windows用，
但後來真係買左部Mac，用耐左，越來越順手，先發覺原來好多野之前以為要Windows先做到or Windows就手d既功能，Mac OS X都做到，無論係軟件同shortcut key都係。我而家可以95%時間用Mac OS X了。

Linux都係一樣，要花時間摸都會做到好多取代Windows既野，不過Linux太多suppose係基本既功能都要靠commandline，個GUI操作好多細節上亦冇Windows / Mac OS X咁細心，作為Desktop OS難免俾人感覺冇咁就手好用。

但樓主要做到Apple咁唔簡單，Mac OS X雖然係Unix底，但OSX唔係單單一個window manager咁簡單，佢將Classic Mac OS 同 NeXT既技術都放埋落去，有完整成熟既自家framework, API，不但只對End User，連Developer開發既experience都照顧周到。

我係一舊雲

再續討論蓮花計劃

基於 linux 原只有 kernel, 什麼也可加在 kernel 之上運作,而 linux 的 free 不是免費,只是開放源代碼,這正正是 linux 的優點,當然世上沒完美,有時這個優點也會是缺點

由於 linux 是 open source,所以什麼也可以在 kernel 上運作,最後就是變成各有特色的不同分發版本,那就是 fedora, centos, suse.......etc.. 各分發版本都有著不同定義下,而配上不同的軟件 package, 在 open source 下也可以自行研發,如 rpm, 由 red hat 研發的 package manager (最初的 linux 是只有 .tar 的源軟件包, 所以 slockware 就是以此為基本), 又如 suse 自行開發的安裝系統, 又如 yum, 原本只在 yellow dog 這套 linux 之上使用,open source 的力量,轉移至其他也可以使用 (yum = yellow dog update manager),這些都是 open source 下的優點
也正是這個open source, linux 卻難以統一,變成不同特色的分發版本,結果令初學者不明所以,也有不同的老手說自己使用中的較好,加上了自己的偏好,這也是干擾初學者的核心問題之一

samiux

原帖由 我係一舊雲 於 2009-1-3 20:05 發表
再續討論蓮花計劃

基於 linux 原只有 kernel, 什麼也可加在 kernel 之上運作,而 linux 的 free 不是免費,只是開放源代碼,這正正是 linux 的優點,當然世上沒完美,有時這個優點也會是缺點

由於 linux 是 open source ...

In my opinion, beginners can try Live CD/DVD on some of the distributions (such as Ubuntu, fedora and etc) and experience the power of Linux before studying and using it.  Experience users can provide their guide to them for choosing the suitable distribution(s).

In addition, if you are being expert in one of the distributions, you can very easy to conquer to other distributions.

我係一舊雲

"有人會問Netbook開始的時候也是自帶Linux,現眼下也失敗了...原因何在呀?
我認為...根本沒一間廠認為桌面Linux是真正有技術有潛力的系統...
好像ASUS,Acer的弄到Linux像玩具多於像系統,HP就更離普,自帶SUSE但沒有技術支援.更像亂找一個上來一樣.
怎樣沒一間廠認認真真對待Linux的...真令人悲痛...怎看也只像LINUX是WINDOWS的附帶品...只是用來給人DEL."

樓主這樣說,個人感覺上覺得樓主本身也有一點先入為主
說什麼 linux 好像是 windows 的附屬品,個人角度若樓主本身並沒先入為主的以 windows 為主系統的想法,根本不會覺得 linux 只是被 delete 的附屬品
個人雖不喜歡 microsoft 這樣對待 windows 這個軟件在市場上的策略,無疑 windows 本身的好處,linux 有些是追不上的,當然與 open source 有關,因無法統一技術,對什麼支援也是困難;由此並非容易找出一套很直接的支援法則,結果就如樓主所講,現時的 netbook 上的問題

同時樓主也提過,為何不如 apple 一樣?
linux 是 open source, 卻不一定要免費,從 GNU / GPL 當中已經提及過,沒提定要免費發放的,正如 suse 若不是 novell 的收購,download 下來都有使用限期
若有人以眾多分發版本下,選出特有而重新開發,給其所有支援等,不就是等同 suse enterprise / red hat enterprise 嗎?

open source 也有好處,當發覺有問題,或有安全上的漏洞的話,以現時網絡的力量,很多高手會出手解決問題,解決問題的速度相當之強大及快速; 相比 macos 或 windows, 以單一開發商,再強大也及不上網絡的力量

若制定一個新系統的話,卻不以 linux 的 open source 發放,雖然是可解決了某程度上的技術支援問題,可是反過來不又是變了另一套 windows 或 macos 一樣嗎?


去到最後,樓主所講的蓮花計劃,雖是非常好的提議,換一個角度,不就是重新建立另一套 susu 相似的東東嗎? 不就是另一套 macos 嗎? (macos 是以 bsd 為核心, linux 多數以 system v 為核心, 也有以 bsd 為核心的 linux 呢)
再一提,樓主所講的蓮花計劃,實際上已經存在,如 asus eeepc 所選的 linpus linux, 香港人不願花錢買的 pclinuxos (pclinuxos 最新是 pclinux os 2009, http://www.pclinuxos.com/ ),以個人好有限所知, pclinuxos 已經正是樓主所講的蓮花計劃相似的東東了,或許是樓主不太了解,又或並不是太多香港人認識,到底要錢買,沒有免費download 版本罷了

我係一舊雲

再一提,基於 open source 之下

當你的技術提高某一程度,其實可以自行調整 kernel 的支援,更改 kernel 的設定,甚至針對 kernel 對硬件的支援,真真正正去優化一個系統,可是 windows / macos 就沒有可能了

(別說技術上困難,以及未到此階段的人較多,用不著這個功能,用不到是個人問題,並不是沒有提供,就有如 windows 及 macos ,根本完全沒有提供這方面的資訊)

samiux

原帖由 我係一舊雲 於 2009-1-3 20:28 發表
"有人會問Netbook開始的時候也是自帶Linux,現眼下也失敗了...原因何在呀?
我認為...根本沒一間廠認為桌面Linux是真正有技術有潛力的系統...
好像ASUS,Acer的弄到Linux像玩具多於像系統,HP就更離普,自帶SUSE但沒有技 ...

The original design of the netbook (e.g. One Laptop per Child project) is not for the matured societies (like HK or US).  It is designed for the 3rd world.

Does Microsoft provides support for home users when they bought a notebook?   Supports from Windows system always by third parties, like books and educational centers.

Citizens of the modern world used to use Windows as their desktop and they have money to consume.  Therefore, when they saw netbook, they would delete the Linux OS and reinstall Windows system.  It is very easy to understand.

In order to keep the cost or price low, netbook for the 3rd world should be installed Linux.  So, you may say that Linux is for poor people.  In some kind of views, it is true.  Like me, I am very poor, I cannot afford a copy of licensed Windows system/server.  I use Linux and make my own home network with some out-dated hardwares.  So that I can learn IT and solved my problem in the area of computing.  Linux enriched my life and mind.

Marketing is for making money.  Some hardware vendors do not foresee Linux can make money.  You can find out that the most biggest Linux vendor - RedHat makes a lot of money on Linux.  Vendors need time to educate as well as users.

Just waiting for the day comes!  Be patient!

[ 本帖最後由 samiux 於 2009-1-3 21:24 編輯 ]

corvus

The main problem is that many people still don't realize that they are being locked-in by MS. It is just too easy to install pirated copies of MS desktop products.

If the 'MS black screen' incident extend to HK, the situation will be better.

How many people will spend $1000 to buy a Windows and even more to buy an MS Office for their desktop+notebook+netbook (3 copies!)

samiux

原帖由 corvus 於 2009-1-4 01:12 發表
The main problem is that many people still don't realize that they are being locked-in by MS. It is just too easy to install pirated copies of MS desktop products.

If the 'MS black screen' incident e ...

I have read an article stating that Microsoft is planning to charge users per usage (per hour basis) of her products.  Some comments stated that this plan will kill Bill.  Some of them stated that they will switch to Mac but no one mentioned Linux.  Funny?

I don't really know Cloud Computing is good or not.

By the way, Microsoft's planning will overcome the problem of pirated copies.

[ 本帖最後由 samiux 於 2009-1-4 01:38 編輯 ]

Gundamdriver

That patent has been rejected.

http://www.neowin.net/news/main/ ... get-the-green-light

Gundamdriver

原帖由 ltsp 於 2009-1-2 15:49 發表 但樓主要做到Apple咁唔簡單，Mac OS X雖然係Unix底，但OSX唔係單單一個window manager咁簡單，佢將Classic Mac OS 同 NeXT既技術都放埋落去，有完整成熟既自家framework, API，不但只對End User，連Developer開發既experience都照顧周到。

Maybe you are right if and only if you are talking about developing native Mac OS X applications.

I have been angry with Apple for years on application development, why? I am still using Tiger, and the company force me to upgrade to Leopard to get latest version of JDK. Wow! When Windows and Linux users can download and install JDK, Mac users have to wait (even beg) for Apple to release updates, and not to mention the possibility of Apple updating JDK for Tiger users. Without Java, I couldn't play with a lot of programming tools from Sun, such as J2ME.

I also tried to do programming in C on Mac OS X, that was painful too. First, you can't install GCC only, and you are forced to install the bloated Xcode. After I have waited the computer for minutes to install the IDE, I tried to write a "Hello World", but it failed to compile, why? Becoz the header file, stdio.h, is missing! Wow, Xcode occupied GBs of my hard disk and it didn't even give me such a standard file. Based on FreeBSD? Based on UNIX? Do you know which language do UNIX and Linux users use most (or very frequently)? C! I can install GCC and C libraries on my Debian box within minutes, and I can simply install Dev-C++ on my Windows box. Why Mac can't make things simpler?

Besides Java and C, I have to develop a system as an assignment with Oracle Forms. Are there any tools for Mac?

Actually I have mentioned this before, but did any of you notice that?

[ 本帖最後由 Gundamdriver 於 2009-1-4 02:04 編輯 ]